Category: Jobs and Employment
Hi all!
I'm currently looking for a job. However, when I tell employers over the phone that I'm blind they get all skiddish. (I'm sure we all know how this is..) and even when I tell them about Jaws or anything about my computer skills..even when they see my resume and know that I havve 3 years of customer service experience I'm still not getting anywhere..
Do you have any advice on this matter? Should I tell them or just show up at the job interview with out saying anything and have them find out then?
Any opinions that you have are greatly appreciated!
I never tell them unless they ask.
If it gets as far as interview then I bring up the issue of technology then.
I agree with Claire. I never tell an employer over the phone that I am blind. I used to, when I first started looking for work. But it didn't take me long to figure out that most of the times I told them that, they found some way out of giving me the interview. Or, when I did walk in, the interview was just a sham: they already had their minds made up.
Now, I don't say a word about it until I walk in that door. I'm sure it takes them by surprise, but most employers are professional enough to handle that. At least then they have to deal with you face to face, have a conversation with you, and so on. They can judge based on more than just the knowledge that you're blind: they can take your physical appearance into account, and the answers you give to their questions.
Some blind people say it's deceptive not to tell them beforehand. I used to think so. I don't think that way anymore. I'll do what I need to to get that interview, and if that means letting them find out when I walk in the door, then that's what I do. I've done many interviews, and only had one potential employer complain about my having handled it that way.
As far as technology, keep one thing in mind. Because of the ADA, there are many questions an employer is legally not allowed to ask you. In my opinion, that is where the ADA hurts us rather than helps us. An employer is no longer allowed to ask you how you'd do the job as a blind person, so it is on your shoulders to make them feel comfortable, and to tell them the things they are not allowed to ask you. If you have a note-taker, bring it to demonstrate. If you have a laptop, bring it so you can demonstrate JAWS. Telling people about this kind of technology is one thing, but they're still going to have no idea how it works. Showing them tends to be your better bet, at least in my opinion. And I guess I should emphasize, showing very briefly. They don't need a whole lesson in it, as their time is usually short, but something to give them an idea of what you use.
Hope that helps.
I completely agree. Making them aware of the fact that you're blind only when you walk in for the interview will at least clear the way of any prior misconceptions they already placed upon you before they saw you. I'm sure some people will be reluctant to shed their previous views on blindness even after they see you in person, but then again, do you really want to be working for those types of people anyway?
I agree with what has been said here. I used to think informing them of my blindness beforehand was wise, but now I think the exact opposite is true.
I agree with what's been said here.
I'll go a bit further maybe offend some:
I firmly believe in putting one's best foot forward. So, I don't really consider being blind my best foot. In theory it shouldn't be a factor at all, but when it becomes one, you maintain control and keep things on the level for them. Like Alicia said, they can't ask, but you can volunteer.
I have gotten jobs because I brought my own equipment. Is that in the ADA, or advocacies or whatever? I guess maybe not, but you got bills to pay, so all that rides behind you making a living.
If you have qualifications, it's great for them to see your qualifications first, e.g. your college degree, relevant experience, etc.
And this isn't really limited to the blind: I know older software developers who are deliberate about not giving away their age, because, software being a very young industry, they can be edited out. To companies' profound disadvantage in my opinion, but who asked me? lol
Just realize it is a market, and you are the product: so try and sell them the product. Know this, everyone who gets hired requires costs: training, a desk, a phone, a computer, less productivity to start than the person who just left. So this isn't like you may require a cost and everyone else does not. Speaking in these terms will help you. And make sure anything you do need to ask for, you illustrate the benefits, not to you, but to them.
When they question your experience, invite them to check your references and qualifications, assure them these are actual and not fraudulent.
I won't say that you will not end up with some incompetent spluttering, but using your previous experience and qualifications as a backdrop, maybe I should go so far as to say a crutch, will help you.
It is particularly challenging when you're first starting out. I had the good fortune to be tested into a technical position in my mid twenties. So, as I went along, anyone who questioned my being there, I referred to my test scores, and the reliability of the test, e.g. completely depersonalized the situation. If anybody was personalizing it was the other person, and not me.
I don't knowhow this would work outside a qualifications-based testable system like technology or the Coast Guard, but I would definitely say rely heavily on any qualifications / certifications and references / past experience you have. It is as much to say: I have this qualification, which either means the qualifier fraudulently gave it to me, or I am qualified to perform the duties of this assignment. You may, as I have ocasionally, need to come out and say it straight. People who are not sheeple will consider it. Sheeple will not, but they don't consider things anyway, and logic rarely makes any headway with them anyway. Just depersonalize and demonstrate.
This is what has worked for me, for better or worse. I claim to be none other than average Joe.
Wow, I agree with everyone here! I never thought of taking my lap top in to the interview..that is a great thought..Awesome advice here thanks a lot!
Here's an interesting situation. My employer (government) is in the process of hiring for a new position. Each person who interviews will have the standard interview and will then take a little aptitude test to see how familiar they are with some of the technologies and processes that we use. I created the test so I hope that part goes well. ;) In short they'll be sitting at a computer and have a series of small tasks to complete. So the question...what would be the best way to deal with this from the perspective of a blind applicant? Here are the restrictions: test is on a computer and really needs to be completed on one. Due to security policies, we can't transfer the test to an applicant's computer and we can't accept files from such a computer. I'm estimating that it will take most people around 30 minutes to complete the test, but it would probably take a lot longer if you had to employ someone else to read the documentation and questions along with acting as a driver. Now in this instance a blind applicant would be really lucky because I have JFW and they could just use one of my desktops...but what if that wasn't the case? Do you all think that not informing an employer about the need for acommedations places you at a disadvantage in testing situations like this one? Just something to consider.
It does, in a case like this. But then you're caught between a rock and a hard place, since most of us have found that telling an employer generally has negative results. Perhaps it wouldn't be quite as bad with the government, who, if I'm not mistaken, gets kick-backs for hiring people with disabilities. they might be a little more open-minded. If one did not tell, and was faced with this situation, I wonder if they would be permitted to use something like System Access to Go?
I interviewed last December for a job. I had previously served as an intern for the agency and the person who called me knew I was blind. I went to a prep session beforehand, bought a new suit and thought of any potential questions in my head. When I walked into the interview it was given as a sort of written question and answer session. One of the interviewers read me the questions, and I did my best to answer them. But since I couldn't read my responses, I was stuck having to memorize my answers. I have never left an interview so humiliated. I felt like I was distracting the fellow applicants by whispering my answers, I couldn't think straight, and I'm not sure my verbal answers matched the ones I had the monitor write. The whole thing was a disaster. I think the interviewers thought they were covering their butts by having a person read and write, but honestly, how was I supposed to give my answers. I'd advise anyone who's going for an interview to find out in advance how it'll be administered. Had I known ahead of time, I may have brought my laptop.
I agree with most of what has been said. I never told an employer over the phone that i was VI. When i first started my job search i would go in & ask for an application. And of they were nice, but also im sure they noticed i was VI. When i got call for my first interview i didn't even mentioned anything about my vision. The interview was a group interview. I was shocked that out of 8 people, me & some other lady got hired. I was then when i went to sign my paperwork is when i mentioned it. And the assistant manager was very helpful. I got to do everything expect the register. They were happy with how i got things done all. But months later they were giving me less hours & easy things to do because THEY THOUGHT i was pregnant. Still stayed there & did my job. What became a lil hard was the fact that we kept getting a new managers & i had to sort of explain the vision to them. I really liked my job. But once i was pregnant then it was more of a on-call schedule. And they started hiring more people. I miss my job & cant wait to see if i can go back.
Chris I think that in terms of their being a test which would need to be completed on a computer there would need to be some onus on the potential employer to stipulate that there was a test and that if an applicant had any specific requirements that might need to facilitate some assistance or adaptation they could make this known. After all it's not just visual impairment that might create an issue - an applicant could, for instance, be dislexic, which would equally make doing a written aptitude test more challenging for them.
On the whole I think that if an employer asks about disabilities then they are generally open to the adaptations those might involve. Equally when asked if you have a disability I think you need to be honest and disclose that you do.
I went for an interview three years ago for a job where the interview required completion of a technical, computer-based test. I actually knew the people doing the interview as it was for a school I work with anyway in a voluntary capasity, however in terms of doing the test I took a copy of jfw into the school and their IT technician installed it on one of their computers in demo mode (with my assistance) so that I could do the test.
Here in the UK many companies sign up to a protocol that if you have a disability and meet the minimum requirements for the position you are guaranteed an interview. It's a far cry from my earlier days of looking for employment where companies could quite easily discriminate.
Interestingly enough, in all four companies I have worked for previously they were aware of my disability beforehand as the question was clearly asked on the application.
If not asked I still don't disclose though.
I agree. If asked, you should answer truthfully, but if not asked, they'll soon find out, anyway. I also agree that if you have a laptop or some other form of AT equipment like a note taker, by all means, I would say bring it to the job, even if you don't expect to need it. It's better that the potential employer knows that you come prepared for any type of situation in advance.
I actually don't understand why it would be deceptive not to disclose at the time you apply for a job. I mean, if I saw a job ad on Craigslist in my field, for instance, I'd email them a cover letter and a resume—and it seems to me that there's no convenient place, or need, to disclose your disability at that point (the fact that I have sex years of software testing experience takes precedence, and the fact that I'm blind generally doesn't hold any relevance).
One exception that's worth mentioning is when I applied for a tester position on the Xbox team. I totally aced the phone screen, which was emailing back and forth some samples of C code (and this was with an autistic four-year-old having a screaming tantrum during the process). I had to disclose before the in-person interview though, because I wasn't confident in my own ability to guarantee that I could do any manual testing on the Xbox. Still…would have been amusing to do a stint in that department, for the irony factor if nothing else. Maybe being a software tester on the MyFord Touch project makes up for this. =)
Mmm Craigslist!
I have never gotten a job off there, though my wife did once. But I used to hire people off there on a regular basis when I was hiring: no foolish bullshit.
Guess what, job hunters? The gig is rigged when it comes to recruiters. They try and get potential interviewers to go to prep sessions just like they do you guys. Had that happen: can't say that I went though.
I have known a lot of people over the years who, like me, have been fed up with the interviewing process on both ends, and went to Craigslist for that reason. Yes, you do get the occasional six-page resume from someone just out of a correctional facility divulging all ... just have a sense of humor and a few beers about it.
These recruiter types will tell employers they aren't motivated, just as they will tell perspective job applicants that. It's all about them selling the impression they want to sell: and that at a very high price to employers usually. God forbid you should do as I did and ask said Slick Willy on what basis they proved technical competency.
IMHO, hit up Craigslist and hit it often: and hit all the sections except those you are not qualified for. Example I would not ever hit up medical or social services as I have no qualifications to prove anything there. But, you will find a lot of different stuff on there. Employers are not just fed the same game by recruiters: they're sick of it by the time they reach Craigslist and usually are glad to find refreshingly honest resumes for a change rather than the stuff you know came out of some career counsellor's wet dream machine.
It's the Indie job market on so many levels. But you got to be ready to move because opportunities come and go fast, and they don't always have the cathedralic rituals applied to those you usually find.
Sorry for the genetic drift: but I imagine someone blind could get a job on Craigslist easier than the normal pseudo-efforts of the employment-finding industrial complex.
Same thing sorta applies, at least in IT, with contract work. Mind you, we have this huge software empire here locally that enjoys hiring folks for temporary (one year or less) gigs (which is what my hypothetical position in Xbox land would have been). Even then, though, I don't disclose until the interview—because at that point, their first impression is my resume.
Unique One I would wait until the interview and not reveal that fact about yourself over the phone at all. I used to chat with a guy on another forum who had asthma and weak ankles, and it so restricted his opportunities because he wouldn't even wait to get the job to reveal that and see how he may be able to work around those conditions. Let them get acquainted with you and not your lack of sight.
Chris I have a question to match yours! if say the company did not ahve a screen reader could a person bring NDVA? acourse this is pending if NDVA could read the screen. Just pondering a question I have had fore a while sense NDVA was released.
If I may answer your question, I would think that any technology you may have that would help you with the job is fair game. The only exception I can think of is if there's any test that you may need to take. I make it a habbit to take my laptop to job interviews. I think it shows your potential employer you're prepared. Plus, it probably puts them a bit at ease. If you have a device with NVDA on it, I'd think it'd be better to bring it with you than rely on the employer's computer. Each company is different, and it'd really suck if for whatever reason there was a glitch, and you couldn't access speech.
If they ask questions about your disability, you should answer them honestly. They'll find out anyway so if you answer the questions dishonestly, you're just showing them you're a liar, and emplyers who would employ liars aren't worth working for.
If they don't ask, tell them when it becomes relevant. For me that would be at interview stage unless I was asked to look at something prior to the interview.
I agree with most things that have been said, but I am one to believe that telling a potential employer that you are blind (after getting the interview) is A great thing
I mean if they are not going to hire you because you are blind they will do that regardless. I personally think it would be a great thing to give them a day or two to let it sink in. In fact I personally request them to give me any questions about how I get my tasks done as a person with a visual impairment. I have to say, it has eased the tension for me alot more allowing them to take the time to come to termswith the fact that a blind person believes he is best for the job put out by the company.
To kind of touch up on chris's response about tests though, the other problem I have seen with employers now a days, especially technical ones is where they give you your technical aptitute test using some kind of program that isn't accessible with screen reading technology either. For one of my interviews I had to take a technology exam which was easy enough but then I had to take a typing exam, and they had some program on their computers that flashed the text I was supposed to type on the screen and I would type what I saw so to speak. One problem, I couldn't see the screen, so not knowing what to do in that situation I didn't end up being able to get the job.
The above-mentioned scenario is why I prefer to let an employer I'm blind. At a relevant stage of course. I wouldn't blurt it out during the initial phone call.
I used to tell people once I got the phone call telling me I got the interview, and at that point it just became "Well, we can't see how you can do this" and then it was just nearly impossible telling them how things can be worked around.
Wow! I've never had someone blatantly tell me I couldn't do a job. The closest was when I interviewed for an AmeriCorps position, and the guy called back to say they had another candidate. But, I think we both knew it wasn't gonna work out. Good thing too, cause I ended up with another position.
In my case my blindness helped. I passed a philharmonic audition because I can memorize music extremely well and have perfect pitch.
Nice! Glad that worked out for you. That's one of the few instances where being blind would be an advantage. That is if you're not applying for a job that's not blindness-related.
Ooh it is your abilities and not your blindness that got you that music job.
My sister is fully sighted, well, wears glasses, but her techniques and methods on the piano are so profound she was flown to scholarship events and competitions when she was young, and is now a professional like yourself.
As I believe I mentioned earlier, it is always an issue of putting one's best foot forward. So if having something amiss with the biology hardware puts you ahead, I guess that could be a benefit: I have not yet found a situation where that would put me ahead.
And, blindness isn't the only thing. If I'm on the fritz and looking for work in the software industry, I'm not going to advertise my age when all the fresh talent at a third of the cost is 21 or 22 years old.
And, when I managed a store, I laid low about my technical abilities because of the frequent misconceptions about us technical people being a bunch of losers who have never gotten laid. We're not changing the way people think about the fact we're blind any time soon, just as we developers with lives and families aren't changing people's perception of the software development community any time soon. My brother has gotten open flack for being a Marine. He's not gonna change any of that perception either, even though he's rather a low-key guy, and not the Sergeant Hartman ... not in civil life anyway.
People imagine fantasies and stereotypes that they want to imagine. Most times they're not that creative about it.
But as to testing, yes, you will have to speak up at the appropriate time, so you can get a reader. Look at it like a chess match or other strategy game, play your being blind as a pawn, and your skills and accomplishments as a major player like a rook or a bishop.
to the last poster:
right on! very well said. its nto her blindness, but her talent and ability that got her the job int he orchestra. she said it herself but contributes it to her blindness. whether a person's blind or not has nothing to do with whether they have any musical talent.
I agree that in most cases one would do better not telling of blindness before meeting in person, but here's something for debate: what about babysitting"I am looking for a babysitting job for the school year, and got my best friend to recomend me to one of the families she's babysat for because they needed someone for mondays and wednesdays which is when I could work. They have 3-year-old twins, one with autism, and they speak mostly duch, but are really getting good at english except when they are really upset. I went over to their house last saturday, with my friend, and was interviewed by the parents and then helped my friend babysit. They saw me interact with the kids and realized that the kids liked me a lot, and when I was leaving I was kind of hopeful that they'd hire me, even though they said they'd call me and let me know. I got called on Monday and told that they really were sorry but they were going to have to say no mostly because the girls were still young and needed someone to watch them all the time and they wanted someone who could read to them, (I told them I have braille children's books), and the one girl likes to go outside and ride her bike and doesn't always do what she's supposed to and stay where she should. I was upset, (I totally fell in love with these kids), but in a way I understand. They wanted someone who could read the books the kids got from the library and such, and they weren't there when we took the kids to the park and I helped keep track of them. I hadn't told them of my blindness beforehand, thinking thatthey wouldn't give me a chance, but my mom said that I should have when I told her about it because the parents are putting the safty of their children in my hands and need to know. I said that's why I had the interview! Any helpful ideas on this and how to get a babysitting job would be helpful. thanks :)
When it comes to other people's children, this is definitely one situation where I would tell a potential employer you're blind. My first summer break in college I had a babysitting job for my sister's co-worker. The boys were 6 8 and 10. Overall, they were good, but I think one did watch a program on tv when he thought I wouldn't notice. His mom busted him for that. I think it helps for a family to see you in action, so to speak. Next time, have the parents tag along with you when you take the kids to the park. Bring anything to the job you think might help, a timer for cooking food, talking cell phone, braille emeergency contacts. The braille books were great. You may also want to buy some kid friendly games like Hungry Hungry Hippo (if they still make that), or a braille candyland or Monopoly game. Kids love these types of games. I think in this situation, your mom was right. next time I would definitely tell the parents before you meet them.
I agree with the last post.
Hungry Hungry Hippo? I didn't know that game was accessible. I've always wanted to play that one. Sorry, got off topic for a second ...
The hippos just eat marbles. It's not braille or anything, but blind people could definitely play it. Man, it's noisy though.